Monday, February 12, 2007

Someone back me up on this...

The Xenu story does NOT count as a straw man argument. The religious beliefs of Scientologists are just as valid and deserve just as much respect as anyone else's.



Blogger coriolinus said...

Weasel words. Yes, the beliefs of Scientologists are as valid as anyone else's beliefs. However, the beliefs of Scientology are a lot sillier than any other beliefs I've come across (save, perhaps, the FSM).

Moreover, most major belief systems have by this point carefully adjusted their canon such that the worst one can say about them is that there is no proof that events actually occurred as written. (Note that Roman Catholic doctrine states that Genesis and major portions of the other first five books of the bible are to be taken metaphorically.) Certain aspects of the Xenu story, however, are provably false--see the Xenu link on Wikipedia, and scroll to the bit about radiation.

3:55 PM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Explodicle said...

If you were raised in a Scientologist society, you might think these things are "silly" too. It's 100% a matter of perspective.

How literally people take their scripture varies widely on both camps; there are plenty of Free Zone Scientologists who are more interpretive than fundamentalist Christians.

HOW DARE YOU insult the Flying Spaghetti Monster!!! His noodly appendages will punish you in ways invisible!

11:00 PM, February 13, 2007  
Anonymous coriolinus said...

But that's the thing: as silliness is entirely a matter of perspective, it doesn't really matter that I think Scientology is silly. They get to keep practicing their religion, and I get to keep making fun of them for it.

As for literalism, it is very difficult for me to take seriously any person who insists on believing anything unreproducible. The more serious their convictions that something out there is affecting the world in unscientific ways, the less seriously I generally take them. It is a simple inverse proportion.

8:42 PM, February 15, 2007  
Blogger J0kerr said...

Here is a big difference:

"I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is."

"You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion."

There is also a letter written by Hubbard about needing money and how the religious aspect might be good to get it.

12:40 PM, February 16, 2007  
Blogger Explodicle said...

Those quotes are secondhand, and were only transcribed decades after he allegedly said them. Don't make me dig out the nasty Jesus quotes! Sure, in the King James bible he's clean as a whistle, but you should hear about the stuff he did in Vegas when he traveled to America.

11:15 AM, February 18, 2007  
Blogger J0kerr said...

The letter, which is too long to publish here, was taken from a FBI raid.

The bottom line of your entry is that you hate religions so you must make others hate religions.

Can't you just live with your god believing bretheron? Does it really pain you so much that you can't see other people with faith?

1:10 PM, February 20, 2007  
Blogger Explodicle said...

DAMMIT! Whenever I think I'm doing well in a V debate, he pulls out the ad hominem and I get CRUSHED!

*sigh* You win again, V.

6:04 PM, February 20, 2007  
Blogger J0kerr said...

ok, did you just ingore the first part?

The letter, which is too long to publish here, was taken from a FBI raid.

6:06 PM, February 20, 2007  
Blogger J0kerr said...

By the way, you are right. The 2nd part of that comment was a fallacy and should be ignored.

6:08 PM, February 20, 2007  
Blogger Explodicle said...

In all seriousness, though, the statement "The bottom line of your entry is that you hate religions so you must make others hate religions." hurts. You've known me for years now, so if you think I'm motivated by hate, then I shouldn't just dismiss you.

I admit I used to be angry at my old religion, the people who taught it, and myself for falling for it. I'd like to think I've gotten over that anger and moved on.

What you're indicating (sorry for putting words in your mouth) is that I never did get over it. And if this post proved anything, it's that I still have enough resentment to treat you people like your situation is a joke. It's unkind and isn't helping anyone. There are plenty of people who had things a LOT worse than I did, and if they can get over it, I should too.

So yeah, you actually did win that argument.

7:21 PM, February 20, 2007  
Blogger Explodicle said...

DAMMIT V! I have to stop actually thinking about what you say before replying!

Uh... ignore that last post.


7:25 PM, February 20, 2007  
Blogger J0kerr said...

Proof that it is fake?

6:56 AM, February 21, 2007  
Blogger Explodicle said...

Hey, you're the one making crazy claims here... the burden of proving the letter is real falls on you.

8:02 AM, February 21, 2007  
Blogger J0kerr said...

umm...taken from an FBI raid. Unless you can prove that they forged it you would be in the wrong.

8:42 AM, February 21, 2007  
Blogger J0kerr said...

The following letter, written by L. Ron Hubbard, was discovered by the FBI during its raid on Scientology headquarters IN 1977. The letter shows Hubbard turned Scientology into a "religion" for financial reasons:




The arrangements that have been made seem a good temporary measure. On a longer look, however, something more equitable will have to be organized. I am not quite sure what we would call the place - probably not a clinic - but I am sure that it ought to be a company, independent of the HAS but fed by the HAS. We don't want a clinic. We want one in operation but not in name. Perhaps we could call it a Spiritual Guidance Center. Think up its name, will you. And we could put in nice desks and our boys in neat blue with diplomas on the walls and 1. knock psychotherapy into history and 2. make enough money to shine up my operating scope and 3. keep the HAS solvent. It is a problem of practical business. I await your reaction on the religion angle. In my opinion, we couldn't get worse public opinion than we have had or have less customers with what we've got to sell. A religious charter would be necessary in Pennsylvania or NJ to make it stick. But I sure could make it stick. We're treating the present time beingness, psychotherapy treats the past and the brain. And brother, that's religion, not mental science.

Best Regards,


9:34 AM, February 21, 2007  
Blogger Phallus said...

Like we're going to trust what THE GOVERNMENT has to say about the Prophet L. Ron, who liveth forever and ever, amen.

But I get it, Jokerr. You hate religions so you have to make other people hate religions. You're a very sad person, and I think your Thetan Levels are all fuckered up.

5:23 AM, March 01, 2007  
Blogger J0kerr said...

1. ad hominem
2. Its good to see that you know its full of crap too.

7:51 AM, March 01, 2007  
Blogger Phallus said...

>>>2. Its good to see that you know its full of crap too.

Yep, it's a religion all right.

7:52 AM, March 02, 2007  
Blogger J0kerr said...

I was referring to Scientology because its easy to prove that one false.

The others are not as easy to prove false. You can't prove them correct either.

10:32 AM, March 03, 2007  

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